“If a Google Cloud and Microsoft Cloud are the same price to developers/users; which one is open source?”
November 26 at 10:01 am
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Francine Hardaway, Karoli, Christian Burns and Alan Le liked this
Neither. Another misuse of the term "open source", IMHO. For a cloud to be open source, you need to be able to get your hands on the code that powers the cloud. You need to be able to set up your own cloud, run your own apps, and not be dependent on or financially obligated to the original author. The source of the *cloud* has to be open, it's not simply a matter of whether you can use Eclipse and Python vs. C# and Visual Studio to generate your open source apps. - Ken Sheppardson
Perhaps a better way to put it would be: which one is Open? If there's no difference in price or limitation on toolsets, aren't they just different dialects of the same thing? - Cliff Gerrish
OK, I'll fall back to my next defensive position. Or maybe it's the same thing just restated ;-) Open can't just mean free, I'd say it also has to mean zero switching cost, and their can't be any costs to new providers who want to offer the platform. E.g. if I can't take my Python app written using the Google Apps API and move somewhere other than google, it's not an open platform. - Ken Sheppardson
So, "aren't they just different dialects of the same thing?"... Yes, I'd say so. Neither is truly open. - Ken Sheppardson
Oh and you can't claim you're "open" just because you decline to take legal action against folks who reverse engineer your API and protocols. - Ken Sheppardson
Yeah, I don't think any of the clouds are looking at the locked in the trunk model. They want to keep you because you like the services you're getting. The question I was trying to get at is, when sold at the cloud level, does it make a difference what the underlying technology is? - Cliff Gerrish
the network, the features and importantly, the realtime ability will make the difference. No one cares about the guts, unless they clearly effect who you can talk to or the lag in communication. - Aron Michalski
via IM
As in does it make a difference that EC2 is based on Xen, or Google Apps need to be on Python? At the moment, yes, because the architecture of your app and the architecture your cloud supplier provides/supports are pretty tightly linked. I can't just click "Import" somewhere one cloud provider XYZ's system and migrate my app there. You pick the cloud(s) that support the arch you prefer at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson
for business, all the bosses care about is that it feels seamless. For the guys who work at the guts level, it's if the service won't make hash of their current system. For the user, the UI should be simple, intuitive and allow them to talk when and where they want to. - Aron Michalski
via IM
@kshep - isn't that a temporary situation. Do you think the application environments will become more customized or more modular and general? The Innovator's Dilemma timeline would indicate it would move from specialized/integrated to generalized/modular. - Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: I really don't know. You'd think I'd be able to choose whether I want to use an iPhone or G1 or Blackberry and then choose which carrier "cloud" I want to connect it to, but it sure doesn't look like that'll ever happen. Honestly, I can't see cloud providers competing on a foundation of feature/capability parity and the ability to host any app anywhere. Amazon, Google, MSFT, et al can't compete on the basis of "use us, our CS reps are friendlier", they'll have to differentiate their services/arch. - Ken Sheppardson
and you can't claim you're open when you use flash in your gmail video plugin and then not talk about it. SO I guess they're both open enough. (reply about half way up) - Steve Gillmor
Steve: If that's re the "legal action" comment, I didn't mean to defend one at the expense of the others. I'd say they're all pretty much equally faux open at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson
This whole 'open' and 'closed' metaphor brings to mind Robert Laughlin's book 'The Crime of Reason.' [ http://itc.conversationsnetwor... ] If the recipe to the secret sauce isn't secret, where's the business model? On the other hand, the ingredients (eg Flash) should be well known, and in most cases, 'Open.' - Cliff Gerrish
AppEngine is Open Source - here's the sourcecode tree: http://code.google.com/p/googl... - Kevin Marks
There ya go. Thanks for the link, Kevin. - Ken Sheppardson
Kevin where's the link to the explanation about how the video plug in is implemented? - Steve Gillmor
via IM
Can Microsoft create its own AppEngine based on Google's work? - Cliff Gerrish
Although they haven't said, Google is probably the Flash engine so they can use H.264 on every platform Flash runs on, which is my educated guess. - Albert Willis
Kevin responds that MSFT could build on GOOGs Open Source work, but they 'probably won't.' There are different ways to protect the secret sauce. - Cliff Gerrish
Time to take the GAE code, twisted, the Enjit source, and tinker in the garage for a while. Hm... - Ken Sheppardson
kevin should answer or get answered the video plug in question rather than toss the ball back at MS - Steve Gillmor
Steve: Does this answer your Q(s)? - http://juberti.blogspot.com/20... - Ken Sheppardson
More on gtalk video plugin / flash - http://blog.senko.net/2008/11/... - Ken Sheppardson
