I was almost caught in the middle of this battle the other day -- obviously these two have some issues to work out. Not sure in public is really the way to do it - Brian Sullivan
@AmandaChapel I get away with being lewd on occasion, you get away with impersonating a woman. Vive la difference ;-) - Hugh MacLeod
Small minds throw that accusation when offended. Sorry. The fact is I'm not impersonating a thing. I was adding to the topic here which was/is your cartoon. - Amanda Chapel
Amanda, I am not offended, nor do I believe that your sex is female. Sorry if I have disappointed you on either count. - Hugh MacLeod
Your judgment puts your "art" into question. That was the point. And again you underscore it. Fact is: Dopes don't produce art. They bash or give emotional blow jobs. - Amanda Chapel
PS Good news is it makes you a hero among the talentless. - Amanda Chapel
I believe there is a greasemonkey app that does just that. Try internetducttape I think. You should also be able to find it at ffapps.com - David Adam
twitterfeed does that well but he's had some technical issues lately that he had to repair (not self inflicted) so not sure of the status - works well though - mike "glemak" dunn
I've told some uber cool techie buddies of mine that were just visiting Edinburgh about your tweet up. I'm hoping they're giong to make the effort to pop by. - Darcie
Darcy, tell you friends I hope they make it, thanks :) - Hugh MacLeod
some of the comments I saw before they got deleted were maybe harsh but they weren't personal attacks. they were about the quality of the show not about attacking you or shel. you just deleted every negative comment. - marcel weiss
All comments except one sycophantic one was deleted. And that one looked like it was written by PR. I am really surprised. My suggestion would be to turn off comments. FastCompany is a censor? That's not something their PR people would like as a lead item. - Frank Roche
To all the folks crying here -- Here is an idea. Create a better show you can. And please don't whine if your comments got deleted. Don't want to get your comments deleted - here is an idea - setup your blog, write a blog post on your blog criticizing to your hearts content. Nobody will delete that. - Vic Podcaster
Is there any way to delete @vic's comment here? It seems overly negative and sarcastic. - Frank Roche
This cottage industry that has formed around criticizing Robert and Shel is getting tired and worn. I think the people who are complaining are being disingenuous when they say they are just looking after SAP's money. No one seems to complain about the production quality of certain poorly lit loudmouths spewing in front of an isight. The censorship issue is clearly a red herring. I think someone is jealous of a couple of guys who actually have a sponsorship. - "Oldengrey" Tannenbaum
The comments were attacks and were not constructive criticism. - Robert Scoble
That's simply not true. I read the comments myself. They were hardly personal attacks. - J T. Ramsay
Robert, please define "constructive criticism" as you see it. It makes no sense that some of those comments were deleted. - Slobokan
@Scoble - you are normally pretty open about stuff. But your reply seems like a pretty lame cop-out. - Tom Quinn
blackmailismylife: well, we judged them as attacks. There is, like Jay noted, a group of anonymous people who are just saying negative things about Shel in a way that's personal and attackive. I'm not going to put up with it anymore, at least on FastCompany.tv. Wanna do it somewhere else, like here, fine. - Robert Scoble
Constructive Criticism: next time ask a question without saying "um." Attack: you're an idiot. - Robert Scoble
Jay: that's cool. Comment policy is important. It's not that I'm getting it right. I used to be far more open to letting people post whatever they want, but I'm definitely changing my view to match what you posted. - Robert Scoble
I used to run a pretty busy community driven website, and was continually surprised at the amount of time and effort people would put into fighting with each other over the most petty and seemingly innocuous things. - Jonathan Beckett
Tony: we wrote a book together, are friends, and I like him a lot -- he's helped launch dozens of companies in Silicon Valley. Loyalty in life has served me well. - Robert Scoble
Tony: well, there will be major changes to the show starting on Friday. I'd love to hear your feedback about how the show goes. Your feedback IS being heard. - Robert Scoble
1938 should shut up and move on. This crap only gets press because people keep trying to create a scandal. - Andrew Ruess
via twhirl
The expression "jackalling" is sometimes used to describe the work done by a subordinate in order to save the time of a superior. (For example, a junior lawyer may peruse large quantities of material on behalf of a barrister.) This came from the tradition that the jackal will sometimes lead a lion to its prey. In other languages, the same word is sometimes used to describe the behavior of persons who try to scavenge scraps from the misfortunes of others; for example, by looting a village from which its inhabitants have fled because of a disaster. - "Oldengrey" Tannenbaum
Trying to create a scandal? Naw, I don't think so. I think people are just concerned about legitimate comments being deleted from fastcompany.tv. It reeks of censorship from within, and it does not look good from the outside. - Slobokan
Censorship is an issue here. Deleting comments after the fact is not a good thing. If you don't have a policy then at least have comments placed in moderation first so they never appear. The fact that they were public and then removed just looks bad. - Tom Quinn
Only one of the negative comments was preserved in Google's cache, but I for one would have left it up. Yes, it included the statement "Shel...do yourself a favor and go away," but it did include a valid comment about having the subject of the video actually appear within the first two minutes of the video. - Ontario Emperor
@Ontario Emperor: Just Googled the comment you mentioned. Reading the whole comment I can see why it was deleted. Have I read worse comments on say Digg? Yes, but let's agree it would have been fine for the person to leave their feedback that they wanted to see the guest Tim Ferris before 2:27 minutes into the show, sign their name to it, and leave it at that. - Loren Heiny
Someone should setup a comment mirror site or a wayback machine of sorts for blog comments. - Eddie Codel
Sometimes bad PR may be good PR and I wanted to watch the interview myself: But I have a question Is there a low(er) bandwidth feed available, preferably without Flash? - Arnd Gronenberg
Lots of professional media sites remove comments for a number of reasons. I'm happy to review the comments again tonight, but FastCompany’s initial review (they were deleted by a team at FC) were that they were pretty classic “troll” attacks. Sites such as NewYorkTimes.com review all comments for personal attacks before posting comments and we have adopted a considerably more open policy than this. But we'll consider all suggestions as to how we should handle our comment policy. - Robert Scoble
Mooney: that's not constructive. How would you improve them? - Robert Scoble
You know who you remind me of? The U.S. Government, you subdue all dissenters - Andrew Fielding
Andrew: really? I didn't delete your comment here, so that proves you are wrong. There are plenty of ways for you to make personal attacks on the Internet. It's just that we're not going to let you do that on our properties. That's what Valleywag, your blog, or FriendFeed is for. - Robert Scoble
Mooney: I'll personally review your comments shortly, it's also possible our spam filter is catching some of them. A couple of mine are held in moderation too. - Robert Scoble
I don't see the big deal. People need to stop hyping this up. Companies have a responsiblity to mitigate risk. Taking down hate speech, abusive language, etc. is not a bad thing. Scoble can use FF, and/or his blog to 'keep the conversation' pure if needed. It's not like FC is the ONLY place for a discussion to occur. 1938media needs to chill. - Ryan
@Robert - this can be an important point "but FastCompany’s initial review (they were deleted by a team at FC)" - does that mean you and Shel (and I haven't watched, so I don't know) did or did not participate or direct the deletion? Maybe there should be some way to keep the comment, since part of it could be useful, and delete the personal attacks with [PA deleted by admin] - Sean
Don't see what a lot of people are complaining about. FastCompany has every right to remove comments from their own site. If anyone is upset by this they can post their comments elsewhere. It's not like there's nowhere else to post such comments. - Paul Grav
I think you may have coined the word 'attackive'. Nicely done! - Seth Eagelfeld
As far as I see it, a blog author or company has the right to remove whatever comment they want if it reflects negatively on the site or the authors. Free speech is one thing, but it's another when you have someone's name and reputation on the line. I support Robert in the decision. Don't let the trolls bait you anymore. - Haggis (Sean)
Thanks for posting the link - but your terms of service open to a blank page (checked on several browsers) and are on fastcompany.com rather than fastcompany.tv - there's no link at all on the fastcompany.tv site - how is someone to know what the comment policy is? Can anyone actually open the terms of service link on fastcompany.com?? - Matt Craven
There's nothing censoring you from saying what you want but, when you are on someone else's "turf" ..even if it is virtual turf..it's their rules. They aren't telling you that you can't speak at all or, you can't say something on your own space. They are just making sure their own site has the look and feel they are striving for. Otherwise, everything would turn into Digg or YouTube with comments. It's not "censoring". It's saying "Go somewhere else." - Candace Holly
Sean: Shel was not involved in deleting the comments. My bosses told me they were doing that and I agreed with them. So, the responsibility is mine, but there is a team watching the comments and deleting ones that aren't constructive criticism. - Robert Scoble
Seth -- I'm wondering if there's a way to be constructively attackive or if being attackive is inherently personal and destruckive. - Omar Gallaga
I wasn't making a personal attack, I was just saying using a politically charged analogy to say that I believe deleting anything other than spam or vulgar comments is something that shouldn't be done as it blocks the ability for other readers or viewers as it may be in your case, to see what others are thinking. I do however appreciate that you are taking a stance on this and looking in to it. I was going to say more but it seems that there is a maximum limit for comments on FF. - Andrew Fielding
Strange, the Service Terms won't load for me. No 404, just no content at all. I value sites that remove nonsense comments and spam, but often find the legitimately critical comments the most interesting. The grey area, of course, is tough, and will obviously piss off people one way or the other. Sometimes the "x comments below your threshold" approach is worth the complexity. Let people see the nonsense if they really want to. - David Sky
Think you could take a hard lesson from @garyvee - Leave everything up. Taking stuff down leads to harsh discussions like this. Leaving it up rallies your supporters and in the end leaves you better off. - Mark Drapeau
Weird, I'm getting a blank page now too. I'll get the tech guys to figure that one out. Sorry. I think a server is barfing. - Robert Scoble
Mark: good point, but this is a business site and we're looking for a different tone to the comment area than, say, you'll see on Gary Vaynerchuk's site, or here on FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble
I guess I don't really understand why you folks think that you have some sort of "right" to have your comments--legitimate or otherwise--displayed on FastCompany's site. I'm not a big fan of the material, but I sure don't have any expectation that FC will "publish" my feedback, even if it is constructive. If you want free/open conversation, you have blogs, FF, twitter... lots of venues. Nobody's "rights" are being violated. - Ken Sheppardson
@Scoble...if this was still your personal site with no affiliation with FastCompany, SAP or any other, would you have handled this the same way? - ryangraves
At the end of the day, it’s the right of the owner of the blog to have whatever TOS they want. People have to expect that a more mainstream pub will have stricter policies than a personal blog five people read anyway, no? Still, that’s no guarantee because everyone runs things differently. (Just scan the crap on Huffington Post, YouTube or Breitbart and see that TOS mean jack there.) I’ve also seen personal blogs ban people for things like opposing viewpoints. Bottom line: It’s FC’s blog—it’s their rules. - mtlb
I have to agree with Mark Drapeau. No matter what, it is just better to leave stuff up and let things run their course. If someone attacks and what not, they will slowly lose credibility, even if it doesn't seem that way. I do agree that having people post insulting things is never wanted. When you take an action though you'll always have those ready to pounce and try and discredit you, etc. Just everything in my involvement with online communities has taught me that. Delete dups and link porn lol - Dean Clark
ryangraves: I've been deleting comments on my personal site too and blocking people here on FriendFeed. I've had enough of jerks in my life. I don't need to have them part of my life anymore. - Robert Scoble
Ken -- I think it's because people expect guys who are covering Web 2.0 culture to approach it in a Web 2.0 way, not in a "We own this site and can do whatever we want with your (unnecessary) participation" kind of way. I think that's what's angering people. And given the potshots Scoble regularly takes at "Old media" I find it ironic. - Omar Gallaga
@Mooney: what confuses me is why you or anyone would even want to insult Scoble. he does a very specific thing for a specific audience. he gets incredible access to great companies and people who open up to him because he is genuinely interested in them. that is a rare, valuable thing. he is not the most polished journalist in the world but i and many others are okay with that. i don't like airbrushed journalists who tick off the whos, whats, wheres and whys and move on. - mike
Dean: I disagree with you. I used to agree. But then I look at how Digg has gone downhill and how YouTube's comments are totally worthless. Omar: Web 2.0 does not mean you have to put up with jerks or trolls. Sorry. If I ever gave you that opinion, then I was wrong. - Robert Scoble
There's a fine line that needs to be established and enforced with any comment policy, but basically, anywhere you want to be a bully online, if it's not in your own schoolyard, expected it to get deleted. Robert, I think the problem here is that line needs to be more clearly defined. - Paul Short
Andrew, philosophically i agree with you...but anyone who has run some kind of online forum or even blog comment section can tell you that if you let really aggressive, insulting comments become a regular thing, it can drive away the majority of users who would otherwise have a productive discussion. it's fast company's house and they can throw out whoever they want for whatever they want. that ability can be abused but in this case i think they did the right thing. especially since robert is talking here - mike
I didn't see the comments, but I saw the video and I wish you had asked Tim more about BodyQUICK. I had to look long and hard to find the ingredients and then showed them to a Herbolist. She was very familiar with all the compounds, but laughed because the best of them would have been cheaply sourced and in minuscule quantities and the rest were fillers. - paul mooney
Paul: I agree. I'm still trying to figure out where that line is too. - Robert Scoble
Clearly, personal attacks ought to be axed but the line is fuzzy. I say err on the side of letting negative comments stay and address them head on. A negative comment, even one with a personal attack element, if properly addressed will usually do the trick, at least for the onlookers-- you will not sway the detractor, however. And like David Sky, I find the dissent worthy of notice, not negation. - Joseph Ferrara.Sellsius
Joseph: I used to agree. But if you let unconstructive comments run rampant it just takes over the tone and things turn worse and worse. It's one thing to do something simple like "I sorta like what you're doing, and here's how to make me really like it..." But it's a whole nother thing to come in and just try to make people feel bad. One is a constructive conversation, the other is just "I'm here to make a political point and rip you down." Er, "I wanna be a jerk." - Robert Scoble
Mooney: why trust a content site at all? Either you like the content you see there, or you don't. If you care about the stuff you see there, but would get a little more enjoyment out of it if it were a little different, then let's have a conversation about that. - Robert Scoble
Might it be best to deal with this sort of situation by just following a policy of turning off all comments? I don't just mean on this post in particular, but blogs in general. Push the conversation to platforms like Twitter, FriendFeed, the commentator's own blog, etc. Everybody is free to say what they'd like to say, nobody's forced to provide a platform/audience for views they don't agree with, but yet the material/discussion is still out there for anyone who wants to see it? - Ken Sheppardson
Should the presidential candidates each have to provide some amount of time, on their dime, at the end of their ads/speeches for the other candidate to respond? - Ken Sheppardson
Ken -- that's a dumb analogy and I mean that in the kindest, most constructive way possible. - Omar Gallaga
If people dont have the brains to make decent comments, or the balls to name themselves, who cares if they are removed. Robert - Shel, just keep doing what you do well guys. - Scott Purdie
I admit it. I've deleted some blog and forum comments too as well as edited out foul language when needed--though I'm more likely to delete than edit. Editing doesn't seem right. I've also walked away from people that want to endlessly argue about one thing or another, hung up on sales reps calling me and thrown away unopened mail. Should we require everyone to attend to everything anyone wants to say to them? - Loren Heiny
Mike, i have had leadership roles at forums and on large IRC channels and i know it is hard to police and I also know from experience that annoying and unproductive comments make serious people less enticed to contribute but I also believe that good constructive criticism that is not overtly complimentary has an important place in the discussion (comments as it may be) as well. From what i can tell, some of the comments that were deleted fit this description while others were clearly personal attacks. - Andrew Fielding
...(continued) that obviously did deserved to be either completely deleted or have specific parts of content censored. .... on a completely different note, I thought FriendFeed had no limit to the size of entries, i keep running into the fact that comments are limited in lenght, argh. - Andrew Fielding
I think you should censor this type of information. I think people at the moment don't understand why it should be censored but then if a personal attack occured to them, they'd want it removed so i don't know why people are complaining about these things. - Nicholas James
@Nicholas James I've had personal attacks taken on me in various forms at various locations and I take it all in good fun, if someone is wasting their time to make a personal attack on me I figure that means i've done something well enough to garner their attention and make them feel that i warrant a personal attack, this is all about each person's individual philosophy and what we believe should be the presiding philosophy in this instance. - Andrew Fielding
On my blog, I ask ZDNet to kill all personal and nasty comments. Those comments inhibit serious discussion among other participants. - Michael Krigsman
I admin a large online community. You have to be very strict moderating and remove personal attacks immediately. You also have to be very consistent. Leaving attacks up for a long time and then taking them down is the probelm here, you have set the wrong precedent. I agree that personal attacks should be removed but you need to do it consistently from now on. - Chris Paton
I don't thnk comments need to be constructive though. It's fair to say the videos are not very good without offering solutions (as long as it's said in a non-offensive way). I personally have enjoyed watching many of the videos. Scoble and Shel are not TV personality types, they are just two geeks interested in what they are discussing. If they are discussing something I find interesting too I don't mind if they are sometimes little too close to the mic. - Chris Paton
@mooney - you said, "Robert: You do understand how horrible your fastcompany.tv videos are?" that is pretty insulting. - mike
@Andrew Fielding - point well taken. didn't mean to imply lack of experience. just trying to make a point that you obviously already understood. :-) and yes the limit on comment size is frustrating....usually leads me to only putting one space between periods and the next sentences. - mike
Robert: You are getting it right, especially in the charity you grant differing views. This is the Slashdot vs Digg argument rehashed. Discussion management is the factor which determines your target audience. Slashdot routes around this with their own elaborate moderation/sliding scale system which allows individuals to decide what level of cruft they wish to be exposed to. You are catching flak due to *all powerful* editors making that decision for the populous. A common gripe when editors decide. - Matt Bidinger
@scobleizer Man, this comment thread is soooooooooooooo 2003 ;-) - Hugh MacLeod
I agree with hugh... you should delete the whole thing and see how loud that makes the moaning and wailing! ;) Only kidding. Seriously tho... you have every right to say whatever you want on your own blog, FF, Twitter, and any other platform that allows you to say it. You do NOT have the right to say it on my blog, FF, Twitter, or any platform that I have control over. It's reality people. Learn to cope. - Lucretia Pruitt
So what is the issue here? Pretend I'm new. Is this a matter of censorship vs freedom of speech? Is this a matter of personal attacks vs constructive criticism? Either way isn't that all best seen from the eyes of the person who has control to allow or decline those comments? No where am I shown that I am commanded to let people say anything they want on my sites. - Mike L
@Mike Lewis No. This is a matter of transparency. Fast Company seems to think they are above it. Hugh: Go back to the bar and shut the fuck up. -
Simple solution - someone will register slowcorporationtvsucks.com (or perhaps even use the fastcompanytv name - it may be legally allowable in this instance). Only negative comments will be allowed. Verizon can sponsor to show that they "get it." Whatever "it" is. - Ontario Emperor
via fftogo
Loren apparently thinks "transparency" implies some kind of obligation to provide a platform for racist fuckwits and their sock puppets. - Karim
Wow, this is one of the most serious discussions on FriendFeed ... I definitely agree with Robert on this one ... I think everyone deletes personal attacks ... u don't need a policy ... it is a rule of thumb in blogging - Nick O'Neill
Like Napoleon's army after the defeat in Moscow, straggling west, fleeing the hideous frozen hell, we are moving into the (for me, at least) unknown... - Dave LaFontaine
Ok, trying FF as well. Still like twitter and will be sad if I have to leave it - Lide Winburn
Ive been following you for awhile but I dont think youve been following me because Ive replied back and you never answered and it said you wasnt following... :) but im still following you!!!!! - Christopher
It seems to me this is kind of a moot point. You draw those who follow you into your convesation and if someone makes a comment that continually intriques you all you have to do is simply subscribe to their ff. No need to wage a big dick contest with numbers of followers here. Its all about the conversation. Just an observation at this point.. I'm just now starting the migration from twitter to FF myself;-) - Curtis "Winer" Cross
via twhirl
Just subscribed to you, feel free to follow back! - KyleM
