Watch the video in here. Nice to know I'm not the only one. Perhaps it'll have more impact now that someone traditionally thought of as a liberal says it. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
I want to learn more about the walled city of Kowloon (pre-demolition). Any sites, books, movies (both documentaries and fiction where the action takes place in Kowloon) that anyone can recommend? Even better, any personal experiences that you'd like to share? - Tudor Bosman
I would love to see more submerged ghost towns, the ones in reservoirs. - Daniel Dulitz
I <3 this rant the only kinda cannon i trust is sammus's arm cannon I love the line punk music is a joke it's all just baroque - Cecil Sandus
a great video. I actually wrote a remix of the cannon a while back before I saw this. http://myspace.com/djrizzn. I think it's called Basket Case - Kool Kannon Remix on there. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
I'm listening to the remix you posted there. Pretty cool. - Candace Holly
Hold up..Pompano? Whaaat? Fellow South Florida native, eh? Born around Pompano, grew up in Hollywood. Spent my club days down in the Miami nightlife. - Candace Holly
I lived in the FTL area for about four years... then moved back to texas after Hurricane Wilma. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
I think Wilma did it in for me too. I left South Florida the year after Wilma but, once Wilma hit I was like "Ok no more hurricanes" - Candace Holly
I miss it but I doubt I'll be moving back there again. Too expensive! Ugh the cost of rent of my apartment was insane and I won't even get into the cost on the house. Plus everyone I used to stomp around The Kitchen Club with are now gone to other areas of the US save a very few. - Candace Holly
Same here, too much has changed,though there are still some great friends there, but also there's a place that makes the best, no really, the best fresh Mozarella I've ever tasted. I think it was called Mimi's. Their Canoli are awesome also. We'd fly back just to have that Mozarella, no joke, it's that good. - sergiooo (droffset)
Oh my gosh! Yes! Mimi's in Hollywood. That place was awesome. Every Holiday we would get fresh bread and things from there. Did you ever have the tiramisu? That was the best I'd ever had. - Candace Holly
I haven't had it, but now I'm trying to think of a way to fit in a visit to South Florida :) - sergiooo (droffset)
The Kitchen Club - sounds very familiar. Was that a popular goth hangout, or am I thinking of something else? - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
@Mark - Yes. It's one of the longest-running goth/industrial clubs on the East Coast. My old stomping grounds were The Kitchen, Manray (and later) Vamp and Underland. Sometimes Respectable Street up in West Palm but, not too often. - Candace Holly
I didn't go there often to the Kitchen, but I remember my ex dragging me out there a few times. I lived in FTL proper, Pompano, Hollywood (right on the broadwalk) and Davie. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Hehe you most likely saw me there but I doubt anyone would recognize me in "club" get up vs regular me. I was always in Hollywood, over near Memorial Hospital. Lived in Kendall with roommates for a short time and, Sunrise too but always ended up back in Hollywood. Now I'm curious as to who your ex is, if she went regularly, I probably knew/know her. - Candace Holly
Not sure how often she made it down to Miami without me. She was part of the FTL fetish scene. A fairly shortlived relationship that went out with a bang. Didn't end amicably. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Wow. The Kitchen. One of the first clubs I went to and I wouldn't have it any other way as I never experienced another club like it again. A quick search led me to its MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/thekitc... which had a fun read on its history. - Gus Perez
@Mark - I'll bet you money I know her then. Now you have to tell me who she is if you don't mind telling. :) @Gus - the Kitchen is still moving along. My buddies still do DJ spots and, they still host parties. That place is a South Florida legend. - Candace Holly
hilarious rant. i like the basket case pachelbel mashup too. - Jess Lee
Thanks! It was a fun one to make, though I cringe hearing it now - wish I still had the source files so I could correct some of the errors I hear. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
"The group calls itself the Green Marketing Coalition, and it includes Microsoft, Washington Mutual and OptimaHealth. Not all the companies involved are big mailers, but they share the sentiment that there should be best-practices guidelines for the direct mail business, which has been vilified even before global warming became a hot topic." - Ginger Makela via Bookmarklet
Digg has been *almost* completely useless for over a year now (if I wanted to read cracked.com top 10 lists I'd go to cracked.com). I fail to see how a Google acquisition could possibly make it worse. - Ross McKillop
Excellent guest post... Louis the guest bloggers are great, it's very refreshing. - Mike Fruchter
Refreshing as in that it's not me, Mike? :-) - Louis Gray
Louis refreshing in the fact that it gives you more daddy time, and less time blogging for the interim.. Oh now don't even go there :-) - Mike Fruchter
It's probably more definitional -- people equate prominence with remoteness. And the more they think you're famous the less they treat you like a person. That's been my experience at industry parties. Every interaction is someone trying to right some wrong they think you did them. If they didn't like the way you said hello that'll turn into a flamey blog post. Makes you want to have some more distance. People still have 20th century attitudes about fame. - Dave Winer
Applying that kind of thinking to blogging is the most ridiculous perversion. Blogging exists to empower everyone to speak their mind. To then impose a hierarchy on it is to subvert the whole idea! Anyway, look for ways you penalize people for expressing their opinions and you might find some of the more "prominent" people coming back into the flow. - Dave Winer
your chart is wrong (at least for me it was/is) - the n00b stage is where i interacted even more than i do today by a small percentage - Allen Stern
Louis, you've always struck me as a person seeking to hear diverse voices, your "Guest Posts" proves this. Nice way to widen the discussion. - Nice Fish Films
I've never thought of the blogosphere as having a hierarchy. Obviously some bloggers are more interesting to more readers than some others. Some bloggers are simply better at writing - at getting their thoughts onto paper; much the same as some very intelligent people make lousy speakers the same goes for blogging. - Ian May
Definitely not for me. When I was a newb, there was a lot less interaction. Back when I started doing serialized posts on websites, there were seriously about seven or eight people on the internet who'd read that stuff. I was elated when my hit-count went double digits. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Interesting post Hutch, I claim stage 2 as well. - Shey
n00b here :-) Great guest post (again). - Justin Korn
I second that, I would be on stage 2 .I blog for an outlet, if an audience follows and interacts with me, that's an added bonus. - Mike Fruchter
I'm a n00b. That's why I had Hutch write for me. - Louis Gray
ha, Louis. Branding the chart with the LG logo -- hardly n00bish. : ) - Robert Seidman
*This* is the great friend divide. Scoble got it all wrong. - benedikt
Thanks everyone for your comments. A lot of fun doing this. Dave Winer is definitely a Stage 4 guy, interesting to see his perspective. And Mark "Rizzn" - I remember well the thrill when hits went to double digits as well. - Hutch Carpenter
Maybe it's also a country thing. In Germany there are no stage 4 bloggers. That's what I like about blogging in Germany ;-) - benedikt
Hutch - Good piece. I would argue that those promoting a specific product engage as many people as possible if they're going to use Twitter or other micro-blogging services (instead of some of the 'nutty' posts that sometimes look really bad). You never know who your next best promoter is. Agree totally that people shouldn't be insulted if they don't get an answer ... the first time :) - Charlie Anzman
I'm blogging in Danish about Social media. I'm trying to get new people interested in the subject and my goal will newer be readers but the conversation and how I can push the Danish marketing community in a new direction. Every comment is still gold to me. I have my niche and I love it. - morten saxnaes
Wow - Seth actually does get out there. Posted a comment to him. - Hutch Carpenter
"I personally read and answer every single email I get " - seth. g - thats so true, I have emailed to him and he responds ! - Peter Dawson
Hutch, though not in called out in the post, in the original thread I did say Seth is *excellent* at interacting. There are different approaches to interacting. Seth posts his e-mail address on his blog, you don't. Neither approach wrong -- just different. As you note, Seth's posts do stand on their own. Maybe there's a blogging opportunity for someone to analyze Seth's posts and try to start the discussion.. - Robert Seidman
first off, it never ceases to amaze me that you can collect so many comments on friendfeed :). Secondly, I am curious how you are able to encourage people to guest post on yer blog, I have several peers with things to say and I have offered my blog as a forum but I have yet to get any takers - gregory
@justin sounds like the digg effect! I was hoping my 'sorry, I have a meeting' post might get this love but I published on iPhone craze day and I didn't get any love... Oh well, keep posting - gregory
Very interesting post and comments! I believe however there is something lacking in the blogging curve. What about people who where lurkers or commentators for a long time and know everything about blogging from a theoretical angle? There is of course a difference between knowledge and practical experience, but doesn't it bring a feeling of false trust/hope for fame for those people? - Laurent Rozenfeld
5 years ago we would have never considered 'walking directions' or 'bicycling directions' or 'siteseeing directions', why not give us multiple routes, based on hills/crime/site-seeing, and color them different, maybe we want to walk a different way back. user generated gps paths would help too, but thats a lot of data to analyze. - David Lynch
Congratulations... What's with all the cute baby pics today, my wife things I'm up to no good when I keep turning the monitor off. I've got 3, I can't let her get all broody - Chris Wright via twhirl
"With today's release of its 2.0 software, iPhone users are about to be clobbered by a new generation of bubbly and glossy graphics for the hundreds of applications by third party developers that are now immediately available for download and ready to, um, be stroked by your fingers." - Bret Taylor via Bookmarklet
"In most online communities, 90% of users are lurkers who never contribute, 9% of users contribute a little, and 1% of users account for almost all the action." - Hutch Carpenter via Bookmarklet
I've seen this a few times now and I wouldn't coin the 90% that matter most when it comes to having a community to speak to as "Lurkers" - it's a negative connotation that deserves a different name - Julian Baldwin
I think you could apply those same percentages to society at large. Question; what's the tipping point that moves a person from one level to the next, up or down? - Jack Carlson
Julian - "lurkers" speaks to the goals of a company running social media. You want participation. But as consumers of information, you're right. I'm learning, not lurking! - Hutch Carpenter
Jack, he defines what each level is right in the article. - Mark Trapp
actions carried out by lurkers (views, time spent per node, node entrance, node exit, etc) can be considered a form of positive participation if you're feeding the trending patterns back into your community. - [edit] - just saw it in the article, 'Make participation a side effect' aka 'read wear'. - Graham Garland
I saw that, Mark, but the examples were internet oriented. When applied to real life or society, there are other tipping points. Some people's lives could be defined by those statistics. They are actively contributing to their lives about 1% of the time and spending 90% of their lives more as spectators than participants. Life's lurkers. - Jack Carlson
Jack, it's not about "tipping points:" he's merely citing statistical data. In general 90% of users online don't participate at all, 9% participate but don't make it their main focus, and 1% seem to focus on nothing other than participating. Therefore, you're not getting a representative sample for user feedback when soliciting comments or methods that require participation. I think it's a stretch to take this data and attempt to discover life's lessons out of it. - Mark Trapp
Old media: TV,magazines,etc. probably 99% lurkers. 10% improvement not bad. - Mark Forman
We all lurk on most things, participate on some things. Last night, there was a good discussion about the safety and reliability of nuclear energy here. I have *nothing* to add to that, I was just as curious as anyone else. Lurking. - Hutch Carpenter
"Wikipedia is thus even more skewed than blogs, with a 99.8-0.2-0.003 rule" - Nicholas James
Wikipedia: "The encyclopedia anyone can edit, but you're really not going to, are you?" - Mark Trapp
Why should we-and put all those wikipediaists out of a job? - Mark Forman
@jbaldwinconnect: I like the term "audience," since it goes right to the heart of what they're there for. To observe, enjoy, and if they feel the urge they CAN interact but don't have to. Sometimes they applaud, sometimes they heckle, even if they don't get on stage. You can't have a theatre WITHOUT them. And why would you want to? Sometimes I think a lot of SocNet activists would like a masturbatory world where everyone's just acting for everyone else and no one's listening. - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
Yep, +1 Alexander. The performer/audience relationship is just natural. Well said. - Colin Walker via fftogo
Isn't it true of the world in general? - Parth Awasthi
Personally, I think Ye Olde "Lurker" is perfectly apt. In online communities (as opposed to what passes for such in the Web 2.0 world), there is no performer/audience dynamic... there are people who define themselves and the community through participation, and then there are the those who prefer to observe the community without becoming a part of it. - Roger Benningfield
Hutch: I'm not subscribed to you, and yet your name pops up in my FF flow all the time. So that pretty much confirms you're not a lurker in this space... having nothing to say in a specific "thread" doesn't change the fact that you're generally active. - Roger Benningfield
Roger - there are times I lurk, times I jump in. And I just subscribed to you as well. I like the earlier comments regarding the need for people to just *listen*, not always *perform*. Nothing wrong with that. Lurking = learning. - Hutch Carpenter
That's very true. I learn so much here. And sometimes lurking is better than blurting out just anything in order to participate. (Though I've been guilty of that too.) - Abby Martin
Hutch: Oh, I don't mean to suggest that there's some sort of moral imperative to participate. And there can definitely be a learning aspect to lurking... bit it can also be voyeuristic and detached in some contexts. - Roger Benningfield
I'm lurking on this thread. Oh wait. - possible248
Someone who watches and observes is generally thought of as intelligent, open. But in online social communities they are "lurkers." - Alex Williams
Imagine the noise if there was 100% participation. - Morton Fox
Alex: Someone who sits in shadowed silence while observing the party is usually thought of as "creepy". :-D Again, context plays a big role here. I'm simply resistant to the recasting of lurkers as "contributors by other means" or the audience at a show. Lurkers all-too-often bring their own sense of entitlement to the table, and don't need anyone encouraging them to feel more important than they are. - Roger Benningfield
This is an important point for any community strategy: how can you encourage the lurkers to participate easily? The "like" button in FriendFeed was made for lurkers! - Erica Toelle via twhirl
I disagree that people who observe a public community are sitting in "shadowed silence" and are therefore "creepy." I agree that they are not contributors by other means. Now, some silent observers may be creepy but they are a smaller subset of the community. Same could be said about contributors. A subset of that community may be quite "creepy" in their own right, too. - Alex Williams
Erica: To me, the bigger question is, "do you really want to make it easy for people to participate?" I agree that the "like" link is a handy, non-destructive substitute for an endless stream of "+1", "first!!!", and other one-sentence contributions. But I'm not sure it would do much to forge the bonds of community. - Roger Benningfield
i was thinking of passing on this one, not wanting to be the only counter comment - but hey, why not - doesn't anyone else on this thread find it ironic that inside the most progressive participation tool to-date (friendfeed) a thread is occurring around an almost 2 year old "article" written by the ui dinosaur that is jakob nielsen - his way of looking at online interactions was dated back then and it is still dated - anyway, i just thought it was ironic, i'll go back to my lurking now ;) - mike "glemak" dunn
Alex: Again, I'm not saying lurkers are of any single character... I'm just pointing out that, depending on the structure and purpose of a community, lurking can have a very different feel. Honestly, I don't have anything against lurkers in general. I simply chafe at the emphasis that is often placed upon them when discussing community. - Roger Benningfield
sorry one more - alexander has a great line above "Sometimes I think a lot of SocNet activists would like a masturbatory world where everyone's just acting for everyone else and no one's listening." - awesome - mike "glemak" dunn
Mike: That only makes sense to me if we're talking about blogging or a service like FF, where it is entirely possible to approach participation as a fire-and-forget exercise. But in an actual community, you're usually talking *with* someone. Listening is kind of an important part of having a conversation. :) - Roger Benningfield
roger: are you referring to my "ironic" comment, in which case i don't understand or my quotation of alexander's funny statement in which case i still don't understand - can you pls say what you're trying to say a different way? - mike "glemak" dunn
Mike: Non-threaded discussion drives me ape-shit. (grumble grumble) I was referring to the latter... an "acting without listening" environment can really only take shape on a blog or a place like FF, where one can get by with one-way content production. Communities, meanwhile, host conversations, which by their very nature require that someone at least *pretend* to be listening. - Roger Benningfield
I've heard the 80-19-1 split... but many communities probably are closer to 90-9-1 - Eric Berlin
roger: I think you and i define online communities differently - alexander's line was humorous which is why I pointed it out - possibly the joke did not resonate with you but it worked for me - have a good one - mike "glemak" dunn
this is nothing new; it was true 20 years ago on USENET and mailing lists. Most people just don't have the motivation to be more than a passive watcher. not a bad thing. - Chuq Von Rospach
Come to think of it, The Smurfs community follows this same distribution: 90 are Crowd-Scenes only, 9 Have a Name/Brand, and 1 is Female -- BUT THEY'RE ALL TEMPRA PAINT BLUE. - Micah Wittman
Con'grats !!! Its seems to be raining babies within FF ..is that time of the year or is it because we are better conenctions and share a lot more of or life streams !! - Peter Dawson
Be much cooler if whole table was molded out of bright colored plastic with lego block bumps on it. - Mark Forman
Wow, Legos are everywhere lately - who is their CMO? (Finlay Robb?) - what I've seen is genius. - Vince DeGeorge
These are almost the right size to build homes from... of course, then we'd need to fashion claw hands for people, but that is a mere detail... - Karim
Friggin' agreed. I just thought Twitter was bad. Now that I'm finally sucked in here, it's over. There is so much to check out that flows through this thing. - Lee Adkins
FF is absolutely addictive. There's so much - but it's not random tweets about going to Subway for lunch, or Vampire requests but instead really interesting stuff and great conversations - hence ... the addiction. - AJ Kohn
Twitter is more addictive for me still... but FF has greater time-suck potential as I'm more inclined to get sucked into comment threads. - Lucretia Pruitt
Yes I can get why FriendFeed, and the FriendFeed/Twitter hybrid that twhirl provides is extremely addictive. Now that the UI doesn't freak me out any longer, I can get comfortable here. I think the big thing is the reduction of friction in moving around among our social presences and those we follow. It could be better, but it is already tantalizing. - Dennis E. Hamilton
FF is more additive b/c it is twitter plus everything else so it seems clear as to why it would be. It is also seriously cutting into my RSS reading - Lou Paglia
